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Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
113
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Posted - 2013.02.11 16:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Unfortunately, at the very worst this would increase the number of scams. At the least it wouldn't help anyone.
There still wouldn't be any real enforcement behind it, and there are some other potential problems as well that would lead people into a false sense of security.
what if someone and their alt account had an IPO. But not just one IPO. Many of them. To falsely boost their economic security status.
then they could just come on here. Use their status to potentially gain the trust of investors. and then walk away with the money.
Sure that would negatively affect their eco-status. But of course the character who actually pulls the scam if a throwaway. and they immediately shed the bad status.
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Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
113
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Posted - 2013.02.11 17:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..Thanks for the replies.
Claire- Third party initiatives have been done with little success. Known scammer lists, ganker lists, bad poster lists, etc. They all face the same issue: little to no tangible consequences.
Grison- The ESS' focus would be on the punishments of having a negative ESS, and not the benefits of a positive ESS. I think maybe a token % relief from station tax and broker's fees might be in order, but nothing game breaking as to require traders to gain a positive ESS.
The real enforcement behind it would be the real consequences of having a negative ESS. All the hassles of havin a negative Security Status as well as leans on all of your market transactions and contracts.
All the negative issues that come wih a false sense of security are already in MD, in spades. Forum rep, regular posting, and successful bonds/IPOs. The problems you have layed out are already in effect. And as with any investment, one should never invest more then they are willing to lose, audits, API, ESS be damned.
And finally, I'm not trying to champion this feature to be implemented into Eve. I would like to hear other people's ideas on how to enforce some consequences on scammers, but at the same time not alienate the scammers. They do provide great content, and Eve's history would be a lit less interesting without them.
And another thing, it seems like this eco-status would only be relevant to like 15 people who regularly post in MD about bonds and stuff.
When it comes to the large majority of traders. They are just using the standard brokerage system. And in the eye of the broker nobody gets scammed.
For example: when a margin scam order fails to go through, nobody loses any money. The person with the items gets the items back. and the person who placed the order gets the escrow returned.
How, and at what price the person got the items for is irrelevant at the point of the order going through.
It is impossible to tell the difference of Intent, when an order fails to go through because of lack of funds. |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
113
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 19:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:Edit. This post is for Alex.
..Not sure if I'm following your statement, but ill give it a shot.
IPO is made and set for 30 day maturity.
It gets defaulted on.
The defaulter now gets a -1.0 ESS.
With a -1.0 ESS, every market transaction (e.g. Buying a ship from the in game market) is subject to an additional fee, depending on the defaulter's ESS. This is an ISK sink.
Thinking about this tho, the MD forums are low traffic as of late. Makes me wonder if a the low MD player base warrants such a change.
It also makes me wonder if such a change is needed in order to increase MD traffic.
But if someone is using a throwaway alt for the purposes of investment fraud they wouldn't be using it for regular market transactions. They could trade-window everything over from their main.
In what way would this eco-status be helpful in this scenario? |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
113
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 17:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thur Barbek wrote:Mu-Shi Ai wrote:
Believe me, I wish there were some basis for trust in this game, and I wish that there were some real, widespread need for market trader services, such that managing others' money wouldn't be limited to RP most of the time, but rather be a real, legitimate service industry in the game.
There is a basis for trust: Collateral. Collateral solves everyone's problems.
Collatorol |
Alex Grison
grison interstellar
126
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Posted - 2013.02.13 16:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Thur Barbek wrote:Mu-Shi Ai wrote:
Believe me, I wish there were some basis for trust in this game, and I wish that there were some real, widespread need for market trader services, such that managing others' money wouldn't be limited to RP most of the time, but rather be a real, legitimate service industry in the game.
There is a basis for trust: Collateral. Collateral solves everyone's problems. Advanced scammers and creative people can do wonders even when collateral is used. I am not going to tell more, as there are many less than innocent ears busy picking up all sorts of possible "suggestions". Edit: and that's why 3rd party services exist. If anyone believes EvE is dark, harsh, obscure and full of pitfalls, then they are just at the beginning. It's much more involved and even more obscure than that. When we see some "how to fleece roleplay investors" threads, remember that anything that goes "public" (applies both to RL finance and much more) it's because it's now old, trite, known. The true escalation is an ongoing race, the cutting edge of scamming is well ahead of that.
The cutting edge of anything ( including scamming )
is rectangle |
Alex Grison
grison interstellar
127
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 18:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Oswaldos wrote:Fairly young to the eve trade market and the bond market that goes with it but it seems to me that the best way to add some sort of accountability is to do a little meta gaming and legitimize a persons identity in out of game ways like logging IP/MAC address. Its certainly far from fool proof but its better then nothing. A third party service also has merit but with the ease to recycling toons i assume their would be some prerequisites SP wise before one was even considered reputable for an IPO.
My 2 cents
Lets just stop right here.
1) IP addresses are easily changed and covered up.
2) There are 2 reasons you might have to want to know someone's IRL identity, in the sense you have described
-You are planning to try to hunt them down to harrass / harm them / threaten them ( which would get you immediately removed from the eve universe and subjected to criminal charges )
-You are planning to try to sue them if they scam you. Also note that such a case would be immediately thrown out of court. As you hold no interest in the value, time, currency or items in your account.
You also do not own any of the currency, items/etc in your account.
Really, in what ways will knowing who someone is IRL help anyone? |
Alex Grison
grison interstellar
127
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 20:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Oswaldos wrote:Alex Grison wrote:Oswaldos wrote:Fairly young to the eve trade market and the bond market that goes with it but it seems to me that the best way to add some sort of accountability is to do a little meta gaming and legitimize a persons identity in out of game ways like logging IP/MAC address. Its certainly far from fool proof but its better then nothing. A third party service also has merit but with the ease to recycling toons i assume their would be some prerequisites SP wise before one was even considered reputable for an IPO.
My 2 cents Lets just stop right here. 1) IP addresses are easily changed and covered up. 2) There are 2 reasons you might have to want to know someone's IRL identity, in the sense you have described -You are planning to try to hunt them down to harrass / harm them / threaten them ( which would get you immediately removed from the eve universe and subjected to criminal charges ) -You are planning to try to sue them if they scam you. Also note that such a case would be immediately thrown out of court. As you hold no interest in the value, time, currency or items in your account. You also do not own any of the currency, items/etc in your account. Really, in what ways will knowing who someone is IRL help anyone? It would be harder to spoof a MAC address or IP address then say delete an eve toon and the purpose of having someones IP/ MAC address would be to cross reference it against a list of known bad eggs so to limit your chances of being hosed. As for harassing/threatening outside of game that's rather pointless. Although their would be benefits to knowing about a persons in game assets so you could make appropriate retributions in game on someone who scammed you 
Well good luck getting everyone to divulge this info for the sake of "security"
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Alex Grison
grison interstellar
127
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Posted - 2013.02.13 23:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
There is no real way to add value than to offer collaterol for any investments.
Other than that, nothing in eve is enforceable.
MD is also only like 30 or 40 regular people. out of everyone in eve. So CCP Doesn't have a lot of incentive to spend time on MD specific things
Remember that 99% of eve never does any player investment and would instantly call it out as a scam, regardless of collateral. |
Alex Grison
grison interstellar
131
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Posted - 2013.02.15 05:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Claire Coffee wrote:Callduron wrote:
I've met both scammers and corp thieves at Eve London which is a mini-Fanfest. It's a game, punching someone who scammed you is like punching someone for beating you at chess.
Try beating someone at chess in high-security prison.  There are different people and news about kids shooting other kids over the game aren't new either. While EVE tends to have a mature and somewhat responsible player base, you never know and you can't risk it.
I deduct one economic security status point from you. |
Alex Grison
grison interstellar
137
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Posted - 2013.02.17 00:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Claire Coffee wrote:Alex Grison wrote:
I deduct one economic security status point from you.
I wasn't refering to you in that post Alex. You don't really qualify for a kid status andI can't call you mature and responsible either. I guess playing chess is your only option! 
Oh please. I am very mature and responsible.
The last time they let me spend the night at 4-4 They didn't send anyone to check on me.
NOT EVEN ONCE. |
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